Saturday, September 5, 2009

Microshit Trains WorstBuy Employees to Boo Linux to Customers


Quote from Best Buy Employee:


So I work at Best Buy (insert boos and hisses) and I was doing some Microsoft ExpertZone training.

Well, the new one for Windows 7 allows me to get a $10 retail copy of Windows 7 after completing the courses. So I figured I'd get it and sell it for a quick buck. Now, during my training modules, a "Linux vs Windows 7" module appeared.

Here are screenshots of the lies Microsoft is portraying.


Okay so this one isn't so bad.


Again, this one isn't so bad either.

Okay so here's where it starts getting bad.

No iPod support? Really? And the Zune doesn't work on the Mac either although there has been some progress from the Linux community. And I've never had any problems pulling pictures from cameras.

I've yet to see a printer that doesn't have a driver. You might have to download it from the products website though (gasp!).

Yeah yeah. Software. Although WINE has been vastly improving lately (we even got around that stupid Secu-ROM).

There are free alternatives to all of the Windows Live "essentials".

WOW. Of all the games to mention, they mention World of Warcraft. I wrote a tutorial on how to get WoW running on Linux not to long ago. Its probably the easiest game to set up with in WINE.

Authorized support? Well you have Red Hat and Canonical, oh I guess you can count Novell...

Video chat with Pidgin? Or Skype?

I don't have time to refute the rest, but I'll post the screenies.





















This comes from  http://www.overclock.net/windows/569458-microsoft-attack-linux-retail-level-probably.html

As you can see, m$ is trying to stay on top as a m$onpoly. In my own experience, I realized that m$ has tried/done changed standards of the internet with Internet Explorer 8, so that Google Chrome and Mozilla Firefox will not work properly with these websites, m$ attempts to cause incompatibility for others. Also you can see how much false and manipulating information there is above. BTW, all my hardware works in Linux, ALL, and if it's doesn't support Linux, I don't purchase or support it. My Realtek usb (very versatile) with fully open source and patchable drivers, 500 mWatts of power that allows me to remove the default omni-directional antenna and replace with a directional Yagi loses connection in Windows often, and I have to keep doing repair, fidling, wasting time, to make it work right in Windows as opposed to it working stable and solid fast in Linux with more control over what I can do with it. Hardware is supported out of the box with Ubuntu, no need to go driver hunting. So I installed Windows and my internet, sound, and a few others did not work. I could not get online to get the drivers. What do you think I had to do? I used Linux to get online and download the drivers. Ubuntu is user-friendly beyond Windows and updates all your software at once without having to run multiple updater programs in the background wasting your computer resources. I could go longer, but I'll leave it at that as of now.

UPDATE: Both Microsoft and Bestbuy admitted to what's happened/happening. They had no choice.

433 comments:

  1. I fully understand needing to use Linux to get Windows up and running. Last week, I got a used computer from someone, and all it needed was a little upgrade. My wife wanted a secondary computer running Windows, so when a no-cost computer became available I got it. The computer is a Dell Optiplex GX260 that originally ran Windows 2000, but I wanted to put XP on it. Being visually impaired, I have a floppy disk with the unattended setup files on it, so that I can install without assistance. The problem is that when I went through the installation,there were 2 separate copies of Windows coexisting on the computer, 2000 and XP. The only way I was able to fix this was to run an old Ubuntu Edgy CD and dd the hard drive clean. Then I installed XP and it was alone on the computer.

    Then I found I had another problem. The screen was programmed at a very low resolution, there was no sound for the onboard device so I had to plug in a SoundBlaster mp3 to get sound, and then *gasp* the network card didn't work, so I had no internet connection. I had to go to our main computer that runs Ubuntu only and download the drivers for sound, video and internet and put them on a USB flash disk. I then took the drivers to the new XP install and loaded them on the system and everything now works as expected. I should note here that when I ran the old Edgy CD on the computer, everything worked out of the box from the live CD, and no separate driver installation was needed to make it function beautifully. I even recall making the comment to myself that the more I use Windows the more I hate it, because it's just so much harder to get running. Imagine if I had never used Ubuntu Edgy or had thrown out the old CD. Imagine if the XP computer would have been the only one I had and I had to reinstall Windows on it without being able to fall back on Linux. Seems in that case that I would have been up a creek for sure.

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  2. The following items work with no installed drivers for me. kensington bluetooth mini dongle, Dynex web 1.3MP web cam, rocketfish webcam, nvidia GLX 250 graphics card, 24 inch samsung wide screen monitor, and perhaps the most expensive digital item I have, except my computer.. my camera, a canon rebel xsi.

    All of these were just plug and play. I am even able to process the raw format exported from the camera in gimp. It is the only plug in that I had to install, but I would expect to do the same in windows, even with photoshop.

    All of the above(except the bluetooth) came with driver disks for windows. I would need to provide those to windows to secure operations of those devices.

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  3. Hey RobotCow,

    I'm a reporter interested in this story. Are you available to discuss? ping me at sam dot gustin at weblogsinc dot com.

    S

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  4. This is a test post as I was told by hugelandmonster that only IE8 is allowing him to post. If that's the case, I will move this to a wordpress blog.

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  5. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  6. Anybody using anything other than Firefox 3.0 or IE8?

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  7. Chromium 4.0.207.0 (Developer Build Ubuntu build 25577)
    WebKit 532.0
    V8 1.3.9
    User Agent Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US) AppleWebKit/532.0 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/4.0.207.0 Safari/532.0

    This browser, Linux Chromium svn nightly build works.

    Aerol reported Firefox 3.5.2 works.

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  8. Firefox 3.54, 3.6x, 3.7x do not work. Opera 9.6 and 10 do not work. Dillo do not work.

    Google Chrome 4.0.206.0 does work and allows me to post. Who would guess that google's blogspot lets googles browser play nice. I highly recommend you use a better service to host your information. I would like to yell at M$ for their FUD, but it would be ironic that your own blog is in similar restrictive situation.

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  9. Microsoft is duplicitous! They need to stop spending heaps of money on marketing propaganda and just make a better product. Everyone knows Vista was a failure, and Windows 7 is merely a Vista patched job.

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  10. HugeLandMonster, Since when did Dildo web browser work with all websites? You are the only one having issues, and I can show you where Google Chrome and Linux Chromium are incompatible with Google Blogger which surprised me. Get rid of that Proprietary Opera Junk. It's used by petafiles and has an exploit in it's security, plus, closed source. I had testers as well as myself not have any troubles posting here.

    I agree 100 % with your last comment.

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  11. My friend locked his self out of his Window's computer by accident, and I happened to be there when he did, so he wanted my help. What I did was boot his computer into safe mode by holding down F8, and then login with the administrator account. In order to login with the administrator account, I used administrator with a blank password and hit enter. How secure is that? Linux won't even allow you to choose a weak password let alone a blank password especially for a privileged account.

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  12. OMG get a life, Vista is crap, Win 7 is better an Ubuntu or any tother buntu based system does not work out of the box. I have been using Ubuntus and Kubuntus since dapper. And Fedora before that. I have a Broadcom wifi card, and NO access to the router. Everytime i update i have to do the whole ndiswrapper and restricted drivers dance. Yes I said update, because it seems to deblacklist the old bcm43. Windows just works, so does Mac, and admitedly so does Linux (in some cases). Believe it or not, some people do not find digging through loads of forums and blogs and dealing with condescending Linux Power-Users to get their oddbal wifi card (wait, isnt Broadcom the leading manufacturer?) to work. Bottomline, Ubuntu and Linux is a good experiment, but is not grown up enough to be a trustworthy OS. No offence, but I had a lot of hassle with linux everytime I install, and accross a number of different machines. I do like to get under the hood like the next guy, but the MAJORITY of people just wants their computer to work.

    PS I have worked in a computerstore, and I have never recommended a customer to get Liinux if i knew he would not be able to get his bearings. And I had more customers with linux problems thatn windows issues coming up to my helpdesk.

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  13. Claiming more customers had complaints about Linux than Windows is a transparent fallacy. There are simply not enough customers who even know Linux exists to balance the Windows users with problems.

    I do admit that currently most Linux users are the sort who are capable of fixing it themselves, but some hope that can change soon.

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  14. BoyWithAxe, you must be familar with the scandal and trouble that broadcom has had? I am sure that has a lot to do with their crappy support.

    The CEO/founder was involved in prostitution and drug scandals along the lines of a debauched rockstar, and the CFO was involved in a stock options scandal after that.

    I noticed that it is consistantly broadcom that is troublesome in linux. Everything else seems to be improving.

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  15. @P-Funk: I never said it was problems. I have been the go-to guy for any computer problems and issues at the store. The linux issues were mostly CUPS not working properly, scanners not scanning all of the image or shaky ipod support or Open office crapping out on them two hrs before their thesis of 10k words was due (OO is notorious for poor support of longer documents). It is not a fallacy, the store was located next to a campus. Poor students = Free software.

    @OgreArtist: I am aware of that, but isnt putting the problems with broadcom support for linux on the same level with the personal shortcomings of the board of directors of Broadcom a bit the same what Microsoft did with selling Linux short? The point is that Broadcom IS a widely used wifi card supplier, and that it does not work with linux out of the box. In todays day and age, where everything is moving into the cloud, internet connection is crucial. A great example is the EEE PC glitch that prevents users from connecting to some older routers with WPA protection. Now i am not having a go at the Linux ideal and movement, but I am pointing out that it will grow on its own terms and nothing Microsoft does will change that. This growth however will not happen until some basic commodities are supported FULLY. Hey, I compiled a way to have internet on my first install of Linux, jumping from xp to linux and back to get all the files. I was trying to get one polish IP modem work on a system that it supported poorly. I know the pain and the hours invested in doing so. Normal users just want to get on their facebook and post pseudo L33t and sms language comments on their friends drunken photo. and not to runs ./Configure, Make, Make install, a hundret times before they get all the reqs.

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  16. I think that these slides are largely true, though you have to take them from a slightly Redmond-oriented angle, or through Blue and Yellow tinted glasses.
    Take the security slide, for instance. The slide mentions the nature of Linux OS updates. That is, depending on your distro, there can be a wildly varying number of folks working on security updates.

    Another slide/s that caught my eye were the ones mentioning hardware support. This is true, simply because not every hardware manufacturer makes drivers for linux. Simple as that. And when a third party driver is created, you often have to go through all kinds of hoops in the command line to get it to work (a good example is getting the wireless driver to work on an Acer Aspire One in Ubuntu).

    Finally, I am surprised that none of the slides mention the terminal/command line. I have not had to access the command line on my Windows machines for YEARS, yet, just to set up a Linux machine, I get to know it very well, very quickly.
    This, above all else is what has kept me from moving over. I am not a code monkey, and I DO NOT want to use the command line. Call me lazy, or a n00b, or whatever, but I want to use my computer, not screw around with commands. The one exception to this rule has been, recently, moblin. It installed, with all subsystems running and with updated drivers 'out of the box'. I moved over to Wondows7 RTM when it arrived, and have not looked back, however, as the performance was better, the OS had more capabilities out of the box (though Moblin is still ion beta, of course), and updates took much less time.

    If Linux can do the following, it may be a viable alternative:
    1. Driver operation out of the box
    2. No need for accessing the command line.
    3. Play modern DirectX10.1+ games.

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  17. oh my god!
    who trust in this is maybe the only one who needs windows, because it is not able to make anything other that is not intended for brainless people ("click-and-go" like a rat when eating in a scientific lab).
    yes windows is easyer to work with him, but you pay for it.
    and iptables security if is intended to be less secure of windows then is best that m$ show what hidden weapon have to think and say that is more secure....it is ridiculous.
    and all of this "benefits"... free download - it is the minimum to have all these things as described, because if you pay for a thing maybe you want to have something for what you have payed!
    Linux is free. And communities are really helpful, but a person need to search and to learn something new to solve a problem.
    For me is the best part of the "work" but for someone else it is the uglyest thing to do (or impossibile for someone).

    Asinus cum asinus fricat.

    M$ you can disappear tomorrow, we will survive with our penguins, and free of charge!

    cheers
    -M-

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  18. Funny how you put duckeys into the discussion. What about this famous donkey http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Democratslogo.svg

    But wait arent the MS users donkeys, or asses?

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  19. BoyWithAxe, odd ball USB & WIFI cards is an area that is improving. I have had more problems with XP & Win2k drivers working than I have ever had with modern Linux kernel. The only piece of hardware that has ever given me problem in Linux is a Bluetooh headset.

    Broadcom? I don't mean to laugh, but back in college I had to fix a lot of XP computers. Every fresh install involving a Broadcom 10/100 nic didn't work out of box; memory serves me right, probably 12-15 Broadcom machines. I had to hunt down the drivers on a 2nd machine and transfer them over.

    Now if you are talking about Vista SP2 or Windows 7 RTM that is a different discussion. The fact remains that 61% all of user TODAY are still Windows XP.

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  20. That version is a Not For Resale copy, so i'd hope your not selling it.

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  21. If folks want to use Linux let them. If they want to use Windows & let them. The deception here comes in the way they imply, reading between the lines, that Linux is inferior. The first major computers were working with a "Linux/Unix" style OS. I've used linux for years and love it. Yes there are some thing I can't do and yes I am a "power user". Use what works best for you not what works best for the corporate line. I used to work for Best Buy and am fully aware of the company's ideology. They play right along with this because as a corporate entity they use Microsoft products. Their "Service" database program was based on a system that nobody used. The size and the volume of it should have suggested using an Oracle system but Microsoft would have "disowned" them. Their going to tow the corporate line just like all other major companies.

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  22. Derek: WorsrBuy does not offer a choice of OS for their customers.

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  23. Oh I understand that completely. So with that said then why are they attacking Linux if they don't even offer a choice. It's just part of the same bureaucracy.

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  24. Derek, you speak of freedom and lies. I saw nothing about worstbuy telling employees anything freely about Linux. Don't make me do price comparisons of newegg vs worstbuy and let that speak for itself.

    Sent from my Linux mobile device

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  25. oh get over yourselves, It is not an epic battle. There is no looming Corporeal or otherwise, Evil. It is JUST OSes, seriously, ppl are dying of hunger and bullets and you whine about someone trying to sell something onto ppl.

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  26. Don't you think that if BEst Buy could move Linux machines they would stock them? Look at WalMart and the gOS debacle for proof that Average Joe the Plumber does not want linux.
    After all, I would imagine that the margin on a linux machine would be better!

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  27. As someone that was on the inside I know how the bureaucracy worked especially when they pushed extended warranties. But I digress. Yes! I know that the average joe doesn't want Linux. BBY knows the average joe not only doesn't want Linux they've never heard of it. Why push the point that Win7 is better than something you don't even sell and that it, through an underlying tone is an inferior product. One thing and one thing only. Market share. With Netbooks being the hot ticket now and so many places like Newegg and Buy.com selling them with Linux people are looking for a deal in today's economy. Could they use them? Probably not. Would they be happy with them? Most likely not. All I'm saying is that it's an old marketing ploy to degrade what you don't sell. In the past most of the people selling computers in BBY were geeks and nerds and pushed what they liked until management found out and moved them to other departments. They restructured to push what they had the best margins on. I knew what they sold it for and what they paid for it. That's why we always were fixing the crapiest computers made.

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  28. BoyWithAxe, I appreciate you calling me on painting broadcom with the same brush that MS paints linux. Your statement is valid in a lot of ways.

    I should not have stated it that way.

    What I was thinking on the matter(and I could have been more clear in my text) was that scandals in companies can delay or retard development, stifle or kill release dates of products.

    This is based on the fact that the scandal in question has an effect on the stock market price of the company in question.

    Replacement of key members of the board, such as what happened to broadcom, can also kill projects. The new people bring new ideas, leaving the old ones to die. Some ideas become pariah.

    It probably happens even more when key engineers and programmers leave a company. Programmers are mostly terrible about commenting and documenting their code.

    I know that we die hard open sourcers have been bugging broadcom(and everyone) for years to release open source drivers, or at least provide documentation for the API for their devices.

    The apple laptops are infamous for containing broadcom wireless. My friend has the problems as you every six months since he migrated to linux.

    Obviously broadcom has been a snarly issue in linux for a long time, while others such as linksys are a lot friendlier.

    What it boils down to is that even though I favour linux, I end up advising a lot of windows users too. So when they want to advice about buying a particular piece of hardware, its pretty obvious from my bias that broadcom will be off the list.

    A good example would be the broadcom based rocketfish bluetooth dongle. It just wouldnt work for me. I went right back(ironically to bestbuy) and bought a kensington.

    But generally, I love rocketfish devices. For example, they make a nice mid range web cam(which I gave to my brother), and once in a hurry I had to replace a CPU fan. I used theirs, and later placed one in my sisters new computer.

    BoyWithAxe, you take a pragmatic view of things. Linux is problematic with broadcom and that sucks. Thats not linux' fault, but it is the developers problem, and a fairly big one.

    Your solution might be easier than theirs: can you switch wireless devices?

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  29. I love linux and i use ubuntu 9.04. At the momment they, i cant use it because it doese not support my Wireless usb internet adapter. Its a netgear rangemax wpn111.Windows didn't support it either so i Installed it off the disk which you cant do in linux. ive looked all over the place and if any one can help its appriciated. Now anyway, back to the point. All that im saying is the new windows system is pretty amazing. Ethernet works out of the box, so does MOST wireless.Comes with a 400$ price tag (damn, just that would make me switch to linux) but other than that its great.Linux is more based towrds work, home office use,laptops, ECT. Espicialy servers. Its not "All Around" Its like having OSX on youre PC. Just that linux is faster, more reliable, and safer. Im just saying you can't bash an OS even if they think there better. It realy just depends on what you use it for. Im sorry Mac fans but that OS realy, Realy sucks. Anyway im pissed off at microsoft for pointing facts out and saying not to buy, i mean, download linux. Please, if someone wants to use linux ( like me) LET them use it. Thats about the saddest thing microsoft has ever done. Thanks for the post though. Enjoyed reading it. IE8 doesnt have spell check. Fail.

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  30. "Don't you think that if BEst Buy could move Linux machines they would stock them? Look at WalMart and the gOS debacle for proof that Average Joe the Plumber does not want linux.
    After all, I would imagine that the margin on a linux machine would be better!"

    Let me elaborate on this one and the comment about the average Joe not using Linux. Walmart sold out of Linux computers almost instantly, so now they just have them online (last I checked). www.dell.com/open Hardware support? Do you think they are selling computers with Linux on them and unsupported hardware. If you buy one of these, all of your hardware is going to work, and ALL of my hardware works. You no longer have to be a hacker to use Linux. http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS2846711250.html I saw these inexpensive in price laptops popping up all over the place by average Joe's as well as these HP Mini Mi Editions which are really customized Ubuntu's on the laptops. http://www.hp.com/united-states/campaigns/mini1000 I've even heard about Dell making mini laptops with Linux (likely Ubuntu), but I haven't researched into it a whole bunch yet. Now you can see why m$ is targeting Linux and specifically Ubuntu in very dirty and lying ways, they are losing regular m$ customers to Linux and specifically, Ubuntu Linux because now the average Joe can use Linux and it's more intuitive and user-friendly than windoze.

    I wish I could comment on all the misinformed people's comments, but I don't have time for that.

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  31. I want to see what the last slide "Quiz" looks like.

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  32. I have to disagree with you cow. Every year in January, I give linux a shot. Usually 2 distros on my desktop, and two on my notebook/netbook. Thus year, it was Ubuntu on both, Moblin on the netbook, and something else on my desktop (I for get, Open Suse, maybe?). On each, other than Moblin, I had to tinker in the command line to get it to work. On my desktop, the built-in wireless adapter on my motherboard (Asus P5B Deluxe wifi/ap)would never work, and it took hours of forum searching, posting and reading to get the wifi adapter on my Acer Aspire One to work. Really not worth it when XP, Vista AND Windows 7 get the netbook drivers out of the box, and I never had to touch the command line.

    And considering that the Acer has a version, same hardware, that comes with Linux and I STILL had all that trouble was rather ridiculous.

    Moblin was amazing, however, and I will be keeping my eye on it. No command line, drivers worked out of the box, for the most part (SD card reader auto-updated and installed). The only drawback is the complicated interdependencies of software that kept a lot of software from working (Abiword or open office).

    I will switch when I don't have to mess with the command line (gaming aside).

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  33. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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  34. deleted for being an asshole spammer on my blog!

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  35. I work for BB too - at times I find their "training" information, well in a word.. WRONG.. in another word MISLEADING.. If you want to work for BB you MUST wear their blinders and not ask questions or point out the mistakes - because they are not mistakes in their eyes.

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  36. Just reading through the comments.. I'm using Firefox 3.5.2 and I can post. Love the article by the way. I own a small business and am constantly trying to get people to understand the benefit of using Linux instead of Windows. Very tricky, but once I pop in a LiveCD they at least begin to understand.

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  37. The development of the IT sector especially in the countries such as India and China has gone a long way in changing the face of these countries. The rise of the middle class, the interest that the foreign market is showing in these countries, and the overall development of the economies of these countries can be massively owed to the growth and flourish of the IT sector. http://www.infysolutions.com/resources/resources.html

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  38. Hi. I just linked to your blog from Ghabuntu for the slides. Great work

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  39. We have 5 computers (2 laptops & 3 desktops) at home running Kubuntu 9.04 & 9.10 with KDE 4.3.1. We never had issues with wire/less networking. So why should I believe all the posts that claim they have problems with Linux networking? Linux networking is not perfect, but there is always a way to find a solution or work around the issues. One thing everyone should realize is fact that, these issues are not the fault of Linux, but rather the manufacturers of those devices for not furnishing good Linux drivers for their devices. Sometimes inadvertent and more often premeditated. Please stop pushing the blame on to Linux. Linux developers are doing their best to resolve any issues and your whining is getting pathetic.

    My wife has a work computer that runs XP and she is the only one who hate computers. I wonder why.
    One poster doesn't want Linux to have CLI. Well, there is no need for CLI on Linux these days, you can do everything you need done via GUI and in my opinion, it is far better than Windows GUI. You don't have to use CLI, but myself, I like using CLI for routine repetitive tasks. I am sure many other do too.

    I am running FF 3.5.2 - Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.1.2) Gecko/20090803 Ubuntu/9.04

    The Preview gave back the following the first time:
    [Your request could not be processed. Please try again.]

    But it worked the 2nd time.

    FF is W3C specification compliant but your site isn't.

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  40. Great Post,
    I have been using Linux for many years and have seen the dramatic improvement in various distributions including Ubuntu. It is now so easy to install and set up you can not ignore it.

    I can install and setup Ubuntu in 20 to 30 minutes including all of the latest updates--the full system with all apps. Doing the same on Windows can easily take several days and I still would not be confident in the system afterwards. There is NO comparison--Linux wins hands down.

    An important point to consider is also what you can do with Linux. It can be used as a SERVER, and has no restrictions on use. That single point brings value to the table far beyond anything in the Windows camp. So we are not really comparing desktop operating systems here because when you compare the draconian and restrictive Windows EULA against the Linux licencing model (GPL) you see that the true value is found in working with the GPL and enjoying the freedom that goes with it. There is nothing like setting up multiple systems and servers from ONE CD and staying completely within the usages permitted by the GPL. One user, 100 users, 1000 users, 10000 users--it does not matter.

    ...Don't try this with Windows because you can get in serious trouble because Windows is metered software and will cost you a fortune $$. Then what do you get in the end for your $$? --obsolete software.

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  41. To everyone saying that drivers are issues, especially to the people bringing up Broadcom as an example. You're all full of it. Go to the store today, purchase two brand new PC's, and install both from scratch. One using the Windows CD, the other Using Fedora or Ubuntu...THEN tell me about driver problems... Broadcom is an extremely BAD example because even though they were widely used for a period, THEY are the ones who refused to open up their drivers, thus preventing a proper implementation. Therefore Broadcom's lack of support on Linux... is Broadcom's fault, NOT Linux.

    The ONLY reason why Windows has the upper hand has NOTHING to do with the quality or ease of use of it's software and EVERYTHING to do with FAMILIARITY. Face it, user's a lazy. And they will tolerate a buggy system, ignore security because they don't care about it, accept that some of their stuff doesn't work, accept that the new ultra powerful system works slower than the old one etc etc. They will tolerate all those things JUST so they don't have to learn a new set of menus and icons...

    And that, is perfectly fine. But I find it retarded that anyone who knows anything about computers would pretend that Windows is "better" at anything... that's just stupid.

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  42. http://ixnotes.wordpress.com/2009/09/06/microsoft-propaganda-handed-out-to-staples-employees/

    Microsoft also provides Staples employees a similar set of lies. GNU/Linux has better hardware support than Microsoft Windows 7 or Vista. All the older printers work and are fully supported whereas Vista and MS Windows 7 have no out of the box support. The same goes with lots of different hardware. Certainly some hardware isn't compatible with GNU/Linux and you do need to by aware of that fact. However- Vista and MS Windows 7 do not offer the compatibility Microsoft claims. Most older software and hardware fails. GNU/Linux provides better compatibility with much of this software too.

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  43. There are no reasons or indications to suspect these slides of being fake. If they were not genuinely produced or used by MS/Best Buy, they would have come out already and said so. They haven't done that yet.

    With the majority of the posts on the Internet refuting the contents of these slides, Best Buy have a big problem on their hands. Their trustworthiness is on the line. Consumers will no longer believe they are getting the best buy as advocated in the name.

    If Best Buy still care about their customers and believe they are offering them "best buys" and Windows is really better than Linux, then they have to prove it by demonstration. That is not so difficult to do. All they have to do is to also make Linux available on in-store computers for customers to compare. If they don't do that, then Best Buy are deceiving their customer and no longer can be trusted.

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  44. @Abe,
    They already did that with the linux based netbooks, which had much higher return rates and lower customer satisfaction, AND sold many fewer units that the XP versions, which were more expensive.

    And besides, which vendor/OEM carries retail-available linux machines? Look how well that worked out for those gOS based systems at WalMart. 0.o

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  45. Using Mozilla 3.5.3 on PCLinuxOS kernel 2.6.27.31,tex4

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  46. @abe

    """Linux networking is not perfect, but there is always a way to find a solution or work around the issues. One thing everyone should realize is fact that, these issues are not the fault of Linux, but rather the manufacturers of those devices for not furnishing good Linux drivers for their devices. Sometimes inadvertent and more often premeditated. Please stop pushing the blame on to Linux."""

    Dont you think the same thing applies to Windows?

    ReplyDelete
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  48. i use linux strictly because I can do everything from the command line without a heavy GUI. I "use" computing resources, rather than just opening up MS Word. If I have a 4GB database that I want to data-mine, I'm not doing it in access on xp, I'm doing it in Mysql on Ubuntu. All through the command line. Why, because it is way easier. I might even do this over a tunnel from my Iphone or Windows XP machine, but it is running on a 2GHZ 4GB RAM Machine that is "headless' and I think the entire install is about 5GB of disk space.

    but, to each their own.

    ReplyDelete
  49. All the data on their slides is absolutely correct. I don't see what all the crying is over? Because Best Buy chooses Microsoft of crappy Linux?

    ReplyDelete
  50. What Microsoft "forgot" in their BS about support is that Windows 7 cannot run on as many machines a Linux does. I could take the 486 I have in my garage, grab a Linux kernel from the net and be running Linux. Also they "failed" mention that they (Microsoft) still cannot put Windows on a thumb drive, and they still don't have a LiveCD/DVD that can boot up to the Windows Desktop.

    Getting the point of complaints, we would first have to define complaints. In the computer world complaints about OSs come from three trains of thought: 1) The user does not understand how to do something. 2) Something has broken and needs to be repaired. 3) The OS cannot support the desired task. In order to correctly gather a number we would have to take the number of complaints and divide by the number users (ie comp/users). If we did so we would probably find that Linux has the most complaints in category 1 and Windows has the most complaints in category 2 and 3. Therefore, Windows still sucks more than Linux.

    The real issue is that Windows was based off a terrible philosophy - GET AS MUCH AS YOU CAN AS FAST AS YOU CAN IN THE CHEAPEST WAY POSSIBLE WITH NO REGARD TO ETHICS. Microsoft stole MS-DOS, it stole the GUI, and it continues to "borrow" from the OSC (Open Source Community) without giving credit where credit is due. Linux was based off of a simple philosophy - Make the world a better place. Its an engineering philosophy. Its a hacker philosophy. Its a scientific philosophy. Its the philosophy that is here to stay.

    ReplyDelete
  51. Hey "The Student", microsoft will NEVER have a liveCD. Think about it.. thats only one step away from an unauthorized install. It will either need to be badly crippled, or Product key protected.. both of which will be circumvented by pirates.

    ReplyDelete
  52. I also work for BBY, I actually put a document up in learning lounge about Linux to refute their "Operating System Comparison" document which favors windows and mac os x and trashes Linux... for whoever would like to use it:

    ReplyDelete
  53. http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AdFS6aYvd5N3ZHJiZnpocV81amIzeDJ0Y2c&hl=en

    ReplyDelete
  54. this is bogus they faked it

    ReplyDelete
  55. Quote - Anonymous "this is bogus they faked it"

    Haha on your. MS admitted it, and so did best buy.

    ReplyDelete
  56. To begin I'd like to level the field and shut macroslop's mouth.

    1) open the winblows box and insert disk. Expect at least an hour before installation completes on modern machine, and that is if you have an internet connection.
    - Insert Ubuntu disk, reboot live cd. It works without installing. aprox. 5mins on common (not modern) machine, even without internet connection.

    2) Ubuntu live cd includes all the software the average user will need. Office, photo, email, audio, common games.
    - Winblows (after lengthy install) has notepad and wordpad = useless, paint = useless. You will need to be prepared to invest several hundred dollars for commercial software alternatives or install the same software that comes preinstalled with Ubuntu.

    3) If you use winblows, you will encounter a virus eventually unless you purchase expensive virus protection software and maintain subscriptions for definition updates, with few exceptions or free alternatives.
    - Linux will run for years without the need to reboot and no virus worries worth mentioning all for free.

    4) Updates are convienient with Ubuntu. Not only will your Operating system be updated (security updates can be set to install automatically for you) but all of the preinstalled software will update as well with the click of a button.
    - winblows updates are not to troublesome and even macroslop will help update most macroslop products, after that you are utterly on your own to update anything else.

    Overall, my grandmother has no trouble just using Ubuntu and the easy to install programs (from the add/remove applications menu -- not the same as add/remove application which serves little purpose on winblows). I suggest only the LTS releases for your non-savvy family and friends.
    - But, I have yet to meet a grandmother or anyone else for that matter who can say they have never had technical issues with a winblows operating system.

    If it's all how you look at it, then open your eyes. Linux distributions have a lot to offer users who just want it to work and of course macroslop is concerned as they should be. Ubuntu LTS is a practical solution in the current economic times and unless you are a professional who relies on commercial software for your living, it is just extravagance to throw the wads of cash that it will require to run and maintain a Microsoft Windows operating system at home.

    In my opinion and obviously many others, Best buy and Microsoft must keep the people ignorant of their right of ownership of Free and Open Source Software. It already belong to us all. The GNU General Public Licence should be mandatory curriculum in every US public school and until it is the people will be lied to and manipulated into senselessly throwing away their hard earned money. Propogating ignorance is not responsible behavior, Best Buy . . .

    ReplyDelete
  57. Have you guys seen Idiocracy, that future is what makes linux SLIGHTLY harder to setup than Windows,
    if Windows keeps going in that direction all their users will get real stupid because they won't do any actual work or learning to Setup the "OS",
    I have learned more about computers in the last 2 years with linux than I would have learned in a lifetime if I ran only Windows!!

    That said, I'm not saying Windows is bad I'm just saying Linux is smarter!!

    ReplyDelete
  58. WIndows keeps trying to own the market ever since they messed up with Vista. Its crazy that Microsoft would do this with their new software to try and brain wash people. Linux is definitely the future of computers and where it will go.

    ReplyDelete
  59. WTF!!!! Microsoft is ridiculous to compare Linux like this. They are two completely different operating systems with different kernels and executables. Linux offers people freedom and choice of what they want in an operating system, whether it's CLI only or a fully loaded system, whereas Microsoft offers an insecure operating system that is loaded with "ununinstallable" programs. I mean, when do you see the WINNT kernel being updated in Windows Update.

    On the server side. First of all Windows Server 2008 Enterprise costs $3999.99 and an extra $7999.99 for unlimited Remote Desktop/App license. In Linux, you could take any distribution, install Apache, PHP, and FreeNX and you get all the features. FOR FREE!!!

    Screw Microsoft and their advertising shit

    ReplyDelete
  60. Whoever blindly believes what Microsoft says deserves to rent and use Windows.

    ReplyDelete
  61. I think the point we are all missing is that Microsoft is under new administration. Under the Gates administration, they would have never done this. Gates, while he is evil, is a genius. He realized that attacking Linux in the open would make the Open Source Community stronger. He therefore instituted the idea of trying to build better software (or better looking that is). Now that Ballmer is incharge (not only evil, but also an idiot) Microsoft has taken to attacking Linux and any corperation that uses it. Which explains the reason behind the attacks against TomTom which was using a FAT32 file system with a Linux Kernel. On the plus side, these attacks will weaken Microsoft in the long run. DOWN WITH THE MACHINE!

    ReplyDelete
  62. Does Microsoft Windows 7 (the seven sins) is more secure than Linux? Funny! This anecdote has been d discussed so much by Micr$oft vs Linux as result the Linux really wins and presents the better performance too...
    So I am seeking to know the information source. It is bullshit!!! It hasn't true, obviously. When Microsoft makes theses attacks, I think that the Micro$oft team doesn't know the basic idea about Security Information.

    I am disappointed and I'll leave to use Windows...

    ReplyDelete
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  64. I find it odd that people talk of using the command line (terminal) as if it's a bad thing.

    I run XP on my laptop (I did also run Vista on my quad core, dual proc, 8gb machine, but it was virtually unusable), and Linux - ()buntu on most of my other machines.

    I recently uploaded a load of old camcorder tapes, and wanted to convert them to mpg to save space. In Windows with a GUI, that first I had to find, then pay for, then struggle to install, it was simply hard work.

    On my main Ubuntu machine, it was a one line 'command line' command to convert the whole lot in one folder, using mencoder.

    I wanted to burn an ISO to disc, in Windows, it was a decision to, a) either search around for a free program that does it and almost certainly install a crap-load of spy/malware at the same time, or illegally download a cracked version of Nero or similar (there's now way paying that sort of money to burn one disc is worth it.).

    I, of course, chose the correct option of using Linux. I right-clicked the .iso file, and selected 'burn image to disc', and 5 mins later, it had done just that.

    When Windows is ready for the desktop, I may decide to give it another crack of the whip, but until then, I'll use an OS that simply does what it says on the tin: Operates my system.

    ReplyDelete
  65. ...as to the digital camera issue.

    At Christmas, I treated myself to a new DSLR camera from Sony. We were at my sister's house, and she had a brand new, shiny Dell PC with Vista on it. After two hours of trying to get it working with Vista - and downloading the latest drivers from Sony etc..., so we could all have a look at the pictures of the day, I ended up driving home, uploading the pictures on my Ubuntu machine, creating a sim-link from my /var/www directory and then viewing them over the Internet.

    Now, seriously. I've just seen the advert on TV of the little girl saying "I'm PC (Windows), and I am 8 years old"

    Yeah, you might be, but you'd be fucked if you wanted to view your xmas pics on the same day, as you're too fucking young to drive...which seems to be a pre-requisite if you want to view your camera pics on Windows.

    ReplyDelete
  66. Looking again at those slides, and to paraphrase:

    Microsoft must be afraid, very afraid.


    ...and quite rightly so. I have somehow become unoffical support for most people in our village.

    When their install of Windows *really* starts playing up, I install Ubuntu, and voila! the phone calls get less, and eventually dry up, as they learn how to use it. Once learned (which takes a week or two - let us remember that people didn't pop out of the womb knowing how to use Windows either), the technical problems dry up. They plug a scanner in, and......it works, whereas if they'd bought a scanner and plugged it in when they were still using Windows, and I'd have had to have gone round there to sort it out.

    I would confidently say that over 50% of computers in our village now run Ubuntu (or a variant of).

    Those 50% may have to choose hardware slightly more carefully than Windows users, but ultimately they are greatful for being allowed to use their computer once again, trouble free and without hassle and expensive *fixes* like Norton et al.

    ReplyDelete
  67. Right. Only fools dont select their hardware carefully anyway.

    The funniest boast is about hardware just working in windows. Thats why they have manufacturers ship driver disks? I just toss mine out. Anyone sensible(as far as windows users go) simply go to the web site and download the latest drivers.

    ReplyDelete
  68. Ohh the irony! What's really funny about Windows is how hardware and software that's supposedly compatible isn't compatible at all! I bought a notebook with a camera and not only was the software complicated, no it wasn't complicated it was just stupid! It didn't even work with the built-in camera! I bought a mac the next day!

    ReplyDelete
  69. While I'm not surprised the MS would make marketing tactic like that. I think the point gets missed in a big way, it has been brought by some, but they get flamed for not "Towing the party line"

    Yes Linux is Powerful lightweight and for the most part free, but then again so is a wooden club.

    Just because you get something for free doesn't make you superior - If you know how to use it cool, But its not free, really... Like others have pointed out you have jump through hoops just get Linux up and running and get all your apps installed. Time is Money (you paid for it anyway).

    If you don't know the command line syntax your screwed, and then you have to either pour over web guides and wikis till you go blind, or ask a Linux Fan for help.

    An experience like non other, Although I can't see the people on the Internet, if any group has created a more vivid mental image, it is the Utter disdain and arrogance I get when they find out I'm a "Windows user". Not to swift a way get me on your side of the digital realm by dragging me through the mud... I have to ask in such a humble way if they could stoop down and help such a dog as me (Allot like the Catholic Clergy or Royalty treated those they deemed unworthy) But I digress.

    But lets face it most people are Lazy or Stupid and some are both, we live in a world of Automobiles and Microwaves, They want it Now and they don't want spend allot time reading about it. They work all day and have very little free time.

    That's why most people have jobs, If your in construction or engineering your building houses and such for others. I buy a house because I don't how (An Architect designed it an engineer ran the calculations and a Contractor built it)

    The same goes for cars, DVD Players, etc. I pay people to do the things I don't have the time or knowledge to do. Can I learned sure I probably can, but I don't have the time, its that simple folks.

    MS is a Corporate Giant because they provide a service, an OS that can be installed by Most and operated by allot.

    All this crap about how unstable MS OS's are is foolish, MS is unstable for the same reason Macs are Stable. Strict product controls, Apple is very tight fisted with their products: YOU MAKE IT BY THERE SPECS OR DON'T MAKE IT ALL.

    Windows Gets installed on PC's lacking adequate specs and the result is, HP, Gateway, etc. Then MS Gets tagged is a crappy OS. I've built plenty of PC's using good quality Parts and if its unstable it comes down to (2) things Poor drivers or poor hardware.

    Now before anyone flames me for forgetting the Vista screw-up MS twice put themselves in this boat 1st with Windows ME and then with Vista.

    Same problem both times, goes like this when you work in an office: "Never time to do it right, but always time to do it over"

    They listened to the wrong people, the Board of Director / Investors to pump out another OS and keep the money flowing, and ended up with a buggy unstable OS, But they learned from the ME screw-up and Made windows XP - As software compatible as Win 98 and Stable as Win2K.
    It just works fine when its on a decent PC.

    I've beta tested Win 7 from Beta to RC and although even I say its What Vista should have been, its the next XP in my opinion, Stable and responsive and best all easy to set up and use. That's all we want folks Fast, easy and more time to enjoy myself. I don't want Doctorate in Linux theory just to install it and make it a suitable replacement for Windows.

    When Linux is Mature enough to be as simple as windows then and only then will it be embraced by all. BTW there really is only one contender with MS thats Apple and there OS Ain't free either.

    ReplyDelete
  70. There are many points here. And a few are valid. Also the usual bombs thrown from both camps. I am going to take a moment to only comment on this last post.
    Anonymous said...

    "...Like others have pointed out you have jump through hoops just get Linux up and running and get all your apps installed."

    I wholehartedly disagree with this comment. 90 pct of the apps you might need to do 90 pct of the Things people want to do with computers are already pre-installed on a Linux machine. How is pre-installed "jumping through hoops"? In the rare case that an app you need is not installed by default, you can go to a distro-based website like www.getdeb.net, for exapmple, and one-click download any app you choose. Again, how is that "Jumping through hoops"? Similarly, distros like Linux Mint have their own software portals like "The Linux Mint Official Store". Like getdeb.net, everything is categorized and there are descriptions, links to the home page, reviews, comments, version info, etc. etc. Try getting that on www.microsoft.com. On Windows, you spend hours finding apps to do what you want to do, then pay for them and install them. If they do not work as intended, you're probably stuck. Since many of these companies reside in other countries, support is weak. You send an email and wait days for a response that you mau never get. I've lived this scenario many times. This, in spite the fact that you paid for the hardware or software that you are having problems with.

    "But lets face it most people are Lazy or Stupid and some are both, we live in a world of Automobiles and Microwaves"

    This is why Linux is sometimes better for them. I know, I've spent years working on both platforms.

    "That's why most people have jobs, If your in construction or engineering your building houses and such for others. I buy a house because I don't how (An Architect designed it an engineer ran the calculations and a Contractor built it)"

    Good point, although in Windows most of the time you have to get all the materials there and sometimes provide the cheap labor for the contractor and the high end computer that your engineer needs to do his thing. Also, Windows "houses" only belong in crowded developments. You have a few floorplans to pick from. As long as you choose one of the pre-designed floor plans, you should be ok...Linux is generally happy with whatever kind house you want to build :)

    "MS is a Corporate Giant because they provide a service, an OS that can be installed by Most and operated by allot."

    Most people NEVER install Windows. It was already installed when they bought the computer, using hardware the vendor hand-picked to work with that OS. If re-installing Windows was so fast an easy, computer repair shops would not need to exsist. Go to Craigs List and serch for "computer repair services" if you think MS does not create a lucrative market for people who try to re-install Windows...

    "Windows Gets installed on PC's lacking adequate specs and the result is, HP, Gateway, etc. Then MS Gets tagged is a crappy OS. I've built plenty of PC's using good quality Parts and if its unstable it comes down to (2) things Poor drivers or poor hardware."

    Yes, in Windows, the more expensive computer you can afford, the better. And wait...did you just say "poor drivers" and "Windows" in the same sentence...?

    "When Linux is Mature enough to be as simple as windows then and only then will it be embraced by all. BTW there really is only one contender with MS thats Apple and there OS Ain't free either."

    It's already more simple than Windows. And it's free. Linux is mature, fast, and able. And not controlled by a monopoly. And I didn't even go into spyware, viruses, defrag, forced reboots due to security patches, lack of file-level security, BSOD's from flaky apps with no log files to even begin to know what went wrong (it's OK, just re-install Windows - wait - read my point above - most people NEVER install Windows, and when they try they fail).Linux is here to stay. And, use it or not, it's good for us all.

    ReplyDelete
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  72. Definitely Microsoft just did the wrong thing that they should'nt do.
    First of all, each and every slide is completely not to say refutable, but misleading and at least very partial.

    In truth, it is a small peace of windows open to a certain part of the world and claiming to be a really good choice without any competitor.

    As far as latest realases of OpenSUSE, Ubuntu, Knoppix are concernend, there is really a lack of truth in the slides.

    My experience shows that "Linux upgrade and updates" works great and are simple. In fact each slide coprises of a lie or a partial truth. Another example is Microsoft claiming that they designed for material compatibility while it is exactly the other way arround and it's the manufacturers to release drivers for Linux if they want to. The reverse engineering needed to make drivers without the material specifications is huge and the developpers do that because few manufacturers do understand that it could be that users want to use anything else than Windows.
    "Linux is safer than Windows" should be a myth ?
    First of all, each time a security issue is discovered, it is not hours before developpers start to solve it out.
    Second, where is Windows implementing the Unix file and directory rights ?

    I prefer to finish here. Microsoft really has a strong sense of leadership and that deserves really bad.

    Changing topic, why is Microsoft leading 1.5 market share of scientific supercomputer where Linux is 85% of marketshare there ?

    I prefer to say that the Linux developpers are making a really great OS and I am very happy to be able to use it as a desktop OS.

    Fact that it is all free software is really something Microsoft has not the ability to cope with.

    ReplyDelete
  73. Don't you think that if BEst Buy could move Linux machines they would stock them? Look at WalMart and the gOS debacle for proof that Average Joe the Plumber does not want linux.
    After all, I would imagine that the margin on a linux machine would be better!


    Recently I just came across a good article on "Linux Tips and Tricks "
    Here is its link.

    ReplyDelete
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